Researching Sexual Violence & Revolutionary Resistance with Farinaz Basmechi

SHOW NOTES

In this episode, feminist sociologist Farinaz Basmachi shares her current doctoral research on sexuality, sexual agency, and sexual violence in Canada and Iran, as well as the research from her first dissertation (yes, she’s doing TWO PhD’s!) titled Not Just About a Piece of Cloth: Three Content Analysis Studies of an Online Anti-Mandatory Hijab Movement in Iran.  They dig into the long history that led to the ground breaking 2022 Woman, Life, Freedom uprising against the Iranian morality police. The episode concludes by highlighting the importance of building professional networks, engaging with professors and peers, and suggestions for taking advantage of opportunities for publishing and gaining teaching experience in graduate school.

Guest Bio

Farinaz Basmechi is a PhD candidate in the Feminist and Gender Studies Institute at the University of Ottawa after already completing another PhD in Sociology from the University of North Texas, after getting a Master of Science in Sociology from the University of Alzahra in Tehran, Iran, and a Bachelor’s of Social Sciences Research from the University of Tehran.  Her current dissertation explores graduate students’ experiences with their sexuality and sexual violence. She is also a researcher on the Lesbian and Gay Liberation in Canada project and has published in the Canadian Journal of Communication. Farinaz is also an active contributor to university life as a member of the Institute of Feminist and Gender Studies’ Graduate Student Association and as the representative for part-time instructors in the School of Sociological and Anthropological Studies.

Key actors, events, and ideas discussed during the episode

Shah Mohamma Raza Shah Pahlavi

Ali Shariati 

Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini

Ayatollah Taleghani

Mahsa Amini

1979 Iranian Revolution 

My Stealthy Freedom (#MSF)

White Wednesday

Iranian Morality Police

Works Cited

Bala, Suruthi and Hannah Maguire. 2024. “Episode 354 – Mahsa Amini & The Morality Police.” RedHanded. Retrieved December 13, 2024

Basmechi, Farinaz. 2021. “Not Just About a Piece of Cloth: Three Content Analysis of an Online Anti-Mandatory Hijab Movement in Iran.” PhD dissertation, Department of Sociology, University of North Texas.

Basmechi, Farinaz. 2023. “The Iranian #MeToo Movement.” Pp. 267-281 in The Other #MeToos, edited by I. S. Cheema. New York, NY: Oxford University Press.

Basmechi, Farinaz, Donna Barnes, and Morteza Heydari. 2022. “Hashtag Activism: Tactical Maneuvering in an Online Anti-Mandatory Hijab Movement.” Sociological Spectrum 42(1):18–39.

Granovetter, Mark S. 1973. “The Strength of Weak Ties.” American Journal of Sociology 78(6):1360–80.

Rippey, L.F. Phyllis. 2021. Breastfeeding and the Pursuit of Happiness . Montreal, QC: McGill-Queen’s University Press.

Related Content from Doing Social Research

Researching an Ellipsis with Dr. Michael Allan

Farinaz’s post on Doing Social Research: 16 Tips for Succeeding in Graduate School

Get in Touch & Join the Conversation!

Join the Doing Social Research Facebook Group!

Follow us on Instagram @ Doing_Social_Research

email: [email protected]

Errata

The My Stealthy Freedom movement started in 2014 not 2012. 

Transcript

00:00:01 Speaker 1

Hello and welcome to the doing Social Research podcast where I talk with some of my favorite people who do Social Research to dig into the cool projects they’re working on.

00:00:10 Speaker 1

My goal is to help demystify research for students.

00:00:13 Speaker 1

Inspire other researchers and provide a platform for all the brilliant work of folks doing research in the humanities and social sciences.

00:00:19 Speaker 1

I’m your host, Phyllis Rippey, a professor of sociology, the University of Ottawa and creator of the website doing Social Research.

00:00:26 Speaker 1

Look, but today, we’re not here to talk about me.

00:00:29 Speaker 1

We are here to talk with the delightful and amazing Farina Basmechi.

00:00:32 Speaker 1

Farinaz is a PhD candidate and feminist and gender studies at the University of Ottawa.

00:00:37 Speaker 1

After already completing another PhD in sociology from the University of North Texas after getting a Master of Science and sociology from the University of Al Zahra in Tehran, Iran and a Bachelors of Social Sciences research from the University of Tehran, her first dissertation was titled not just about a piece of cloth.

00:00:56 Speaker 1
Three content analysis studies of an online anti mandatory hijab movement in Iran.

00:01:01 Speaker 1

And her current dissertation.

00:01:03 Speaker 1

I still can’t get over it.

00:01:04 Speaker 1

Who does 2 dissertations?

00:01:05 Speaker 1

Farinaz.

00:01:07 Speaker 1

Does my friends.

00:01:09 Speaker 1

So her current dissertation explores graduate students experiences with their sexuality and sexual violence.

00:01:14 Speaker 1

She is also a researcher on the Lesbian and Gay Liberation in Canada Project and has published in research in the areas of gender and sexuality, content analysis and digital media.

00:01:23 Speaker 1

She and I have also started to work on a project together analyzing American presidential discourse used to enter into the many wars the US has entered into since the start of the Cold War.

00:01:33 Speaker 1

And we would start doing that if I would ever finish my other projects.

00:01:36 Speaker 1

I need to do so we can really.

00:01:38 Speaker 1

Get into that.

00:01:39 Speaker 1

Farinaz is also an active contributor to university life at both the Institute of Feminist and Gender that is in as a member of the Institute’s Graduate Student Association, and also as the representative for part time instructors in the School of Sociological and Anthropological Studies, where she’s going to be teaching our gender and society course in the winter term.

00:01:58 Speaker 1

Can someone tell me what this woman doesn’t do?

00:02:01 Speaker 1

I know that I say this every episode with every guest, but it’s true.

00:02:05 Speaker 1

I am extremely excited to learn more about what you’re working on and to hear just spend some time with you to hear about what you’re doing and I want to hear about your research and also maybe we’ll talk about some of the challenges you face as an international student.

00:02:19 Speaker 1

Maybe have some advice for other graduate students and how can someone else be as successful as you?

00:02:25 Speaker 1

Anyway, welcome to my podcast.

00:02:28 Speaker 1

Hello.

00:02:28 Speaker 2

Hello.

00:02:29 Speaker 2

Thank you for having me.

00:02:31 Speaker 1

Well, I am just delighted.

00:02:33 Speaker 1

So I like, you know, just cause I’m still.

00:02:37 Speaker 1

I’m still building my brand, which I think is a hilarious thing to say, but anyway, doing Social Research.

00:02:44 Speaker 1

So what Social Research are you doing these days?

00:02:48 Speaker 2

Well, at the moment I my main project is my dissertation and I’m working.

00:02:53 Speaker 2

As you said, I’m working on the experience of graduate students with sexual violence and sexual agency and mainly on university campuses, and more specifically focusing on their experience during college 19 pandemic.

00:03:11 Speaker 1

Ah, interesting.

00:03:12 Speaker 1

So what do you you said, sexual agency.

00:03:14 Speaker 1

What do you mean by that?

00:03:16 Speaker 2

Well, um since um the like I can say the midst of uh having neoliberal era um talking about agency is being one of the main topics.

00:03:32 Speaker 2

But when it comes to sexual agency and there are aspect that I’m more interested in how women in this day and age but neoliberal ideas, it’s kind of putting the responsibility on their shoulder under for the happiness for their sexuality, for the.

00:03:50 Speaker 2

But they’re dating for many, many aspects of their lives.

00:03:54 Speaker 2

How they, um perceive that and exercise that sort of agency?

00:03:59 Speaker 2

How they go on dates?

00:04:01 Speaker 2

How they meet other people, how they protect?

00:04:05 Speaker 2

Themselves from loss of dangers.

00:04:07 Speaker 2

How they manage their relationships, how they, hmm.

00:04:12 Speaker 2

Find people like minded people or when they encounter sexual violence, how they deal with that.

00:04:21 Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:04:21 Speaker 1

Interesting.

00:04:22 Speaker 1

So timely, I mean, I guess sex is always timely because obviously people have always had sex, because otherwise we wouldn’t exist.

00:04:28 Speaker 1

But I’m always so awkward.

00:04:32 Speaker 1

But but it seems like this is something that people are talking about a lot more like people are raising questions about the assumptions that people make about sex that it’s.

00:04:41 Speaker 1

Like I think you know, there was a time where it’s like you don’t talk about sex and people are are being much more agentic.

00:04:49 Speaker 1

I guess you could say much more sort of intentional about how they’re thinking about what is going to happen and not just sort of assume that things will be will be OK.

00:05:01 Speaker 1

So so are you.

00:05:02 Speaker 1

You’re interviewing students at the are we allowed to say at the University of Ottawa?

00:05:08 Speaker 1

Are you at their university?

00:05:09 Speaker 1

Like what are you?

00:05:10 Speaker 1

What’s your research method?

00:05:11 Speaker 1

I guess is my question.

00:05:13 Speaker 2

Yeah, sure.

00:05:14 Speaker 2

Uh, well, um.

00:05:14 Speaker 2

It’s a comparative study between University of Tehran, like the female graduate students at the time of covered, specifically the ones that diverse students at the time of college and the University of Ottawa at the University of Tehran.

00:05:29 Speaker 2

And I I’m interested in like doing this comparatively the and it’s going to be of course qualitative.

00:05:36 Speaker 2

Yep, because of the license of the the topic survey or like quantitative, UM, I didn’t find it as, um, compelling or like, I don’t know, like I ended up.

00:05:49 Speaker 2

Like feeling homework.

00:05:49 Speaker 1

Yeah, that won’t work.

00:05:50 Speaker 2

Yeah, doing qualitative study, qualitative in semi structured structured interviews with UM graduate students in those two universities.

00:06:04 Speaker 2

Ohm.

00:06:05 Speaker 1

Wait, you said in Tehran?

00:06:06 Speaker 1

And what was and the University of Ottawa?

00:06:07 Speaker 2

There’s.

00:06:08 Speaker 1

Or ohk.

00:06:09 Speaker 1

OK.

00:06:09 Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:06:09 Speaker 1

So, comparing Canada to Iran, I see, OK.

00:06:09

American auto.

00:06:12 Speaker 2

Exactly.

00:06:13 Speaker 2

And to see how these two like when we see Universal Tehran based like in Iran, where lots of there are still lots of stigma or shame associated with sexual activity or at least rules in place, decorations in place, they try to kind.

00:06:33 Speaker 2

of people in general and specifically woman’s sexual activity and bodies, whereas in in Canada and People University of Ottawa, they don’t have necessarily those kind of regulations, but there are some regulations to protect them.

00:06:52 Speaker 2

Uh.

00:06:54 Speaker 2

From quote unquote, sexual violence.

00:06:56 Speaker 2

Uh, and I, I’m interested in seeing how these two very different geopolitical and social context, the woman experienced her agency or violence in those different settings and also how they respond to different issues related to her sexual activities.

00:07:22 Speaker 2

And it’s interesting how kind of more or less.

00:07:28 Speaker 2

Same themes are coming up.

00:07:29 Speaker 2

This despite the, the very two different context that I’m looking at the the the themes as teamed up.

00:07:35 Speaker 1

Things.

00:07:36 Speaker 1

Staying.

00:07:37 Speaker 2

Yeah, it is very interesting and kind of mind blowing.

00:07:40 Speaker 2

How woman sexuality is being still, um, kind of appropriated as being like addressed by some feminist materialists, that woman but under sexuality is still part of the discourse that is being seen as a.

00:08:01

Yeah.

00:08:02 Speaker 2

Place that men in general.

00:08:05 Speaker 2

And patriarchal rules try to kind of have control over them.

00:08:10 Speaker 1

Hmm.

00:08:11 Speaker 1

And you’re seeing that in Canada and both in Canada and Tehran, cause I think the assumption, especially because of, I mean the maybe you could speak to that a little bit sort of for those who maybe aren’t aware of what’s been happening in Tehran or in Iran overall for the last few years work.

00:08:29 Speaker 1

Praying women and like not just their sexuality, but I mean some of the like, the ability of women to just sort of exist as in public life.

00:08:42 Speaker 1

Like could you could?

00:08:43 Speaker 1

You speak to.

00:08:44 Speaker 1

That a little bit at all like sort of and maybe like like why like I know that you’re you’re from Iran, but also like why like what about these two different like, what makes these contexts so different?

00:08:56 Speaker 1

And then like, what is kind of the same about them, maybe I just ask you 5 questions at once I’m.

00:09:00 Speaker 1

Sorry.

00:09:01 Speaker 2

Wow.

00:09:02 Speaker 2

Well, yeah, of course I will.

00:09:03

Hey.

00:09:04 Speaker 2

1st a focus on what uh, what is being a woman in Iran?

00:09:12 Speaker 2

Well, the, the, the woman’s movement in Iran has a very long history, like 100 years.

00:09:21 Speaker 2

At least, and a woman is being active and trying to kind of take over like the agency and then kind of faith over the life and and and and that.

00:09:34 Speaker 2

Hmm.

00:09:35 Speaker 2

For last 100 years and it’s been, um, kind of a battleground, their bodies, their.

00:09:44 Speaker 2

Actions and public **** showing private spheres.

00:09:48 Speaker 2

Battleground of um, politics and politicians, and also some traditional patriarchal rules.

00:09:57 Speaker 2

But they, despite all of those kind of restrictions that is being specifically ruled over their bodies and agencies since the 1979 revolution, which is kind of famous as Islamic revolution.

00:10:17 Speaker 2

After that, the specific revolution for those who don’t know, like women in Iran, used to have the um like freedom to choose what they want to wear in public and like going to um school and and and.

00:10:35 Speaker 2

And right now they can go to school.

00:10:36 Speaker 2

Don’t get me wrong, but when they get married, lots of um, rules now is in favor of the male counterpart in a marriage and heterosexual marriage

00:10:48 Speaker 2

and these changes and these kind of backward changes, quote UN quote and kind of happened after the 1917 revolution, but woman did not really stop fighting for their rights.

00:11:03 Speaker 2

And there were different movements trying to take back some rights in, like, a family and.

00:11:12 Speaker 2

Interrelationship the the.

00:11:14

Sure.

00:11:15 Speaker 2

Male counterparts, which is like Malia accent, like the only accepted way of relationship in Iran like other forms of like heterosexual homosexual relationship, is not really accepted, and it’s kind of like banned the legally.

00:11:33 Speaker 2

But of course, there are people living their lives, but secretly.

00:11:37 Speaker 2

But anyway, I don’t know how ohm hmm, the audience that are familiar with the woman life freedom movement, which is happen.

00:11:48 Speaker 2

Think about two years ago and 20.

00:11:51 Speaker 1

It’s can I can I know it for one second.

00:11:54 Speaker 1

So let me just to make sure that we’re all clear about sort of the history of Iran, and this is like, I have limited knowledge from, like my political sociology course.

00:12:04 Speaker 1

I took 100 years ago, but then I also sent to a really good podcast recently that was talking about all of this and so could I just.

00:12:11 Speaker 1

Like.

00:12:12 Speaker 1

Summarize what I think happened, and then you can tell me is this correct or not?

00:12:16 Speaker 1

But that so Iran has a pretty interesting history in terms of having.

00:12:20 Speaker 1

Sort of like very long sort of Persian dynasty.

00:12:25 Speaker 1

Is that the right word?

00:12:26 Speaker 1

Like element to it, where there was like the Shah, was like a royal, right?

00:12:33 Speaker 1

Who was in charge?

00:12:35 Speaker 1

And then he was this guy who was wanting to modernize Iran a lot throughout, like the 1960s and 1970s.

00:12:43 Speaker 1

And so there was like a lot of um, like he was very interested in.

00:12:51 Speaker 1

Sort of like Western culture, and like all kinds of stuff.

00:12:55 Speaker 1

So it’s it was like a very sort of Western leaning kind of country, but at the same time, there were people like the Ayatollah Hominy who were sort of more.

00:13:08 Speaker 1

I don’t want to say I don’t like the word radical, but just like like who are, you know, very strict must like Muslim clerics who wanted to see a return of Iran.

00:13:20 Speaker 1

Um to sort of traditional Muslim ideas because it’s my understanding.

00:13:25 Speaker 1

That’s and maybe I’m mixing things up, but that there’s this idea that Mohammed will be coming back to Earth and it needs to be in a place where Sharia law is practiced.

00:13:35 Speaker 1

Is that correct?

00:13:36 Speaker 2

Well, if it’s this 12 based on Shia perspective, the 12th and imam uh, whose name is Mattie is gonna.

00:13:36 Speaker 1

Is that wrong?

00:13:44

OK.

00:13:47 Speaker 1

OK, OK.

00:13:48 Speaker 2

Come back.

00:13:49 Speaker 1

So so it was like this push to like reject this modernizing in order to create a place that could be like like a, a spiritual haven.

00:14:01 Speaker 1

Is that accurate?

00:14:03 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:14:03 Speaker 1

Yes, you can totally get.

00:14:05 Speaker 1

Tell me I’m wrong cause I’m I’m yeah.

00:14:06 Speaker 2

Yeah. Consider.

00:14:07 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:14:08 Speaker 2

But but but but.

00:14:08 Speaker 2

But I we know that’s revolutions cannot really happen just because one clarity we have the the setting, the time was kind of ready and people in Iran was kind of like having an anti imperialist perspective.

00:14:15 Speaker 1

No.

00:14:26 Speaker 2

They were not really happy with lots of like changes that the and former king wanted to implement and lots of changes.

00:14:35 Speaker 2

It was kind of like enforcing on People’s Daily lives were not really.

00:14:40 Speaker 2

Happily accepted by, let’s say, a rural person in a very traditional family, and even though they were like the the even the the the politics of the time ruled by shah was, kind of pro um woman’s right, but lots of them was still having that perspective of patriarchal.

00:15:03 Speaker 2

But even though like here in, in, in, in, in the West, quote unquote, we still have like in it’s been the case that even though lots of changes have have been happening.

00:15:13 Speaker 2

But again, like the periodical rule, and like having the perspective of like, OK, so we are doing these changes but not necessarily because we believe that women have equal, right.

00:15:25 Speaker 2

But because we want to follow the West.

00:15:28 Speaker 1

Right, right, right.

00:15:30 Speaker 1

Or it’s like the kind of like, feminism of, like, look, we can wear high heeled shoes in bikinis now or whatever.

00:15:35 Speaker 1

That is, though, that is like the true feminist ideal.

00:15:38 Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:15:39 Speaker 1

And I was just gonna like, I don’t want to go on forever, but that it was also my understanding is that it was like the the Shah was sort of messing with oil prices a bit, which and then something happened with OPEC.

00:15:53 Speaker 1

Again, this is clearly I’m an expert, but it led to like massive inflation in 1979 and that that plus some like corruption that was happening with the Shah I think and then.

00:16:06 Speaker 1

It sort of laid the foundation and then thy Atallah sort of sort of came in, sort of.

00:16:13 Speaker 1

It was like a moment where then he could grasp this power, but that what was.

00:16:19 Speaker 1

I guess the reason why I’m bringing it up is that it’s sort of and as you’re saying, it’s not that all Iranians were like, yay Ayatollah, you’re the one.

00:16:27 Speaker 1

It’s that there was this sort of growing movement.

00:16:31 Speaker 1

Um, that he was able to take advantage of when there was this major.

00:16:36 Speaker 1

Um, sort of like economic situation is that is that am I getting?

00:16:41 Speaker 1

Am I totally out to lunch?

00:16:42 Speaker 1

We could, you know, I don’t know.

00:16:44 Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:45 Speaker 2

You were totally right.

00:16:47 Speaker 2

That’s that.

00:16:48 Speaker 2

The oil price was high.

00:16:53 Speaker 2

I think it in.

00:16:54 Speaker 2

If.

00:16:54 Speaker 2

50S and it’s really helped the shot to start lots of projects, but um and it was kind of like um pushing him towards being more arrogant, more like self centred and not really listening to the surroundings.

00:17:13 Speaker 2

And at some point all press kind of fell and it led to massive inflation, but we shouldn’t really disregard the fact that at a time like at the time of Iran’s revolution in that 79, it was in the middle of a Cold War and the word was kind of divided into two pieces.

00:17:34 Speaker 2

And Iran located very close to the other times suit union.

00:17:40 Speaker 2

It’s there are lots of younger generation.

00:17:43 Speaker 2

We’re kind of leftist because of the actions of Shah.

00:17:46 Speaker 2

Of course, it was kind of pushing them away from the imperialist perspective.

00:17:52 Speaker 2

Plus, there were like an interestingly, sociologists who died one year before the revolution who connected the idea of name whose name was Ali Shariati, who connected the idea of left plot to the Islamic perspective, which was kind of a very Ali shariati.

00:18:09 Speaker 1

No ohhhhh.

00:18:12 Speaker 1

What’s the name?

00:18:16 Speaker 1

I’ll put it in the shirt.

00:18:17 Speaker 1

Looks after.

00:18:17 Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:18:18 Speaker 2

Yeah, and, um, kind of, um, the the lots of arguments a or the revolution was kind of spreading through his his speeches.

00:18:32 Speaker 2

Who, like lots of lots of people, were attending those speeches, those gatherings, and also, and there was another important figure in the revolution.

00:18:43 Speaker 2

Who was kind of like lots like a cleric.

00:18:45 Speaker 2

Name and talabani.

00:18:48 Speaker 2

And lots of who was kind of connecting those, like leftist young leftist uh, who were not necessarily religious, but believing in in some sort of like power of that correct Talabani and that person I I think um very weirdly after the revolution.

00:19:13 Speaker 2

But anyway, Talabani was kind of connecting the put the big like the power coming from the left and then the devolutionary part from the left to the Islamic.

00:19:26 Speaker 2

Part.

00:19:27 Speaker 2

So basically there were two main like pillars of power pushing their evolution.

00:19:28

Interesting.

00:19:33 Speaker 2

One was the young generation, who were mainly leftist and also some some traditional people, more religious people, and those two ideas were kind of it’s very um, interestingly gotten connected by a sociologist perspective, Ali Shariati.

00:19:54 Speaker 1

Interesting.

00:19:55 Speaker 1

That’s so interesting.

00:19:56 Speaker 1

And so and it was, you know, in opposition to the.

00:20:00 Speaker 1

Who was very imperialist and like in, you know, in I don’t know if he was in the pocket of like the US and the West, but was definitely like leaning towards this sort of like Western imperialist approach to the world to govern.

00:20:14 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:20:15 Speaker 2

And and just the government.

00:20:16 Speaker 2

I don’t want to go on with this topic because stop, I think add one point which is like connecting former king to Shaw to the US there was a like a.

00:20:18 Speaker 1

Well, yeah.

00:20:19 Speaker 1

Sorry, no, it is off talking.

00:20:20 Speaker 1

I don’t mean to.

00:20:22 Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah.

00:20:30 Speaker 2

I the the oil got became kind of a national property of Iran because it used to be like that.

00:20:38 Speaker 2

Their profit was taken over by the UK and there was a Prime Minister named Mosat there like it’s like way back.

00:20:48 Speaker 2

It’s about 90 years ago.

00:20:50 Speaker 2

And who was I at a time trying to and won the battle and won their court and he?

00:20:58 Speaker 2

Got the um oil fry all uh benefits for Iranians, but in the there was a coup.

00:21:07 Speaker 2

Uh.

00:21:08 Speaker 2

Organized by the UK and the US, UM and the the the the order of that group, even though organized by these two big powers, were signed by the.

00:21:21

Oh hmm.

00:21:22 Speaker 2

Oh, so that was kind of part of a thing that is like people of Iran, had that mindset of like, OK, we were going towards democratization of the nation.

00:21:35 Speaker 2

But because of that and and having that kind of in mind making the US, the UK, the imperialism and shot all as an enemy, so that was the still.

00:21:47

Yeah.

00:21:48 Speaker 1

No, but to me this is all real.

00:21:49 Speaker 1

I mean and and this is what like partly why I wanted to go down this trail a little bit is because I think there are so many assumptions like false assumptions people make about.

00:22:00 Speaker 1

Islam about Iran, about like feminism in Iran like there’s all of these.

00:22:06 Speaker 1

Well, maybe not everyone in Iran makes assumptions.

00:22:09 Speaker 1

People in Canada, these people, the 27 people listening to this widely listen to podcast, but that that you know, there’s this sort of idea that we hear of like, you know, like like it’s more complicated.

00:22:24 Speaker 1

It’s more complex than just that.

00:22:25 Speaker 1

It’s like this is.

00:22:27 Speaker 1

I mean, everywhere is more complex.

00:22:29 Speaker 1

Right.

00:22:30 Speaker 1

You know specifically in Iran that there is like it’s not just that there is this sort of like modernizing moment and you know, I think sometimes people can think, Oh well, that was the the good time for women.

00:22:41 Speaker 1

And then after the revolution, it was the bad time because Islam is inherently bad for women and it’s like no women are ****** no matter what.

00:22:50 Speaker 1

Like if like it isn’t never particulate like there isn’t something like utopia at some point, but it also like I love that.

00:22:58 Speaker 1

What you’ve been taught?

00:22:59 Speaker 1

Like what you said at the start to go back to that is that women have been fighting.

00:23:05 Speaker 1

Like for their liberation, for their freedom, for um.

00:23:09 Speaker 1

You know for to have their rights protected and so and I just also want to make it like understood that the you know the the revolution was in 1979 like like this if you think about you know this isn’t like the Ayatollah Khomeini wasn’t like traditional quote  unquote iranian values that represented everybody.

00:23:28 Speaker 1

It was a particular.

00:23:29 Speaker 1

You know, it sounds like, which I didn’t realize with the leftist stuff, but it’s like there was a coalition of people that came together to overthrow an imperialist king.

00:23:36 Speaker 1

And so, um, that’s the too long didn’t listen to Phyllis stumbling through version.

00:23:43 Speaker 1

It’s so OK.

00:23:45 Speaker 1

So a couple years ago there was, like, feminist movement was sparked again.

00:23:51 Speaker 1

So go back to what you were trying to say.

00:23:53 Speaker 1

Before I interrupted you 20 minutes ago.

00:23:53 Speaker 2

That first well, um, yeah.

00:23:56 Speaker 2

Um and and.

00:23:58 Speaker 2

There are some positive aspects to um.

00:24:02 Speaker 2

The revolution.

00:24:03 Speaker 2

Um, there are some people don’t really agree with this statement, but some do as well, including myself did like, because like before the revolution, there were lots of like going to universities going to university campuses for lots of women coming from their religious families where it’s not.

00:24:05 Speaker 1

Sure.

00:24:23 Speaker 2

It was not really accepted because they were like they’re associating those setting with.

00:24:28 Speaker 2

Kind of, um, letting their women and girl go to a setting that is, like, super sexual or super religious and they they didn’t really have that consistency to go.

00:24:39 Speaker 1

I don’t know.

00:24:40 Speaker 2

But there was, like, couldn’t go Islamic revolution made, and a cultural revolution.

00:24:48 Speaker 2

That’s that happened right after the revolution made.

00:24:54 Speaker 2

Universities um religious, like not religious, but like changing that regulations, women needed to work her job at some point on since 1983, women needed to were.

00:25:09 Speaker 2

Um.

00:25:10 Speaker 2

Oh, hey, job in public spheres including universities and also like the the the titles and the the the lots of specific social sciences, humanities subjects needed to like.

00:25:20 Speaker 2

They changed it.

00:25:22 Speaker 2

The textbooks that try to make them more Islam.

00:25:26 Speaker 2

Like but at the same time it helped some like woman coming from traditional religious families to be able to attend universities because their families, their fathers, their their husbands were kind of like in Peace of Mind, that like they’re they’re daughters or wives, they are not going somewhere that is not really religious or like they can and be a freed as they want so.

00:25:51 Speaker 1

Right.

00:25:52 Speaker 1

Like, it’s not like in the.

00:25:53 Speaker 1

Like like maybe there it’s like imagining, like all of the really bad American movies like Animal House or like all these movies about, like partying on university campuses, where it’s like sororities and fraternities.

00:26:06 Speaker 1

And it’s like Yahoo.

00:26:08 Speaker 1

So they were like, so they got rid of, they got rid of all the fun.

00:26:08

Exactly.

00:26:12 Speaker 1

Just kidding.

00:26:12 Speaker 1

I was not really a part of that stuff, but anyway.

00:26:16 Speaker 2

Yeah, but anyways.

00:26:16 Speaker 1

Just I just wasn’t cool.

00:26:18 Speaker 2

Yeah, the woman got, like, the the number.

00:26:21 Speaker 2

Like at some point on the number of woman in in universities exceeded the the number of men.

00:26:28 Speaker 2

So like and I think that’s the sill the case.

00:26:30 Speaker 2

I haven’t looked up the the the exact numbers, but I think that’s the still the case and it was got to like 6070% and woman and then the rest man.

00:26:39 Speaker 2

So like the the woman got actually to into public sphere, into university campuses, we have a very, very high number like high rate of educated people, both men.

00:26:52 Speaker 2

And woman and those are kind of positive outcome.

00:26:55 Speaker 2

Unintentional, probably, but right.

00:26:57 Speaker 1

Race.

00:26:59

What?

00:26:59 Speaker 2

That’s and that’s the demand of people.

00:27:02 Speaker 2

Iran, of course they did.

00:27:04 Speaker 2

It was kind of the setting that wanted it, but anyway the as I said, the woman’s movement was going on, was still active, feminist Islamic feminist movement became more active after durable lution some a magazine like a woman magazine, started working some campaigns that started working to get, like, take back those equal rights for women, specifically in marriage contracts.

00:27:32 Speaker 2

But and and and and another movement has started.

00:27:35 Speaker 2

Not really.

00:27:36 Speaker 2

Long ago, like in 22,012, so in 2012 um a movement started by journalists who fought the country, UM named Missy Alinejad on Facebook and Instagram.

00:27:51 Speaker 2

And then movements name was myself.

00:27:52 Speaker 2

And freedom.

00:27:53 Speaker 2

And it started from the moments that like this, and journalists sharing the experience of, like, not being able to having their hair like free in, in public spheres and started asking like, starting different campaigns, different hashtags like I, my sister, freedom White Wednesday, which was asking women to wear white scarf on Wednesday too.

00:28:21 Speaker 2

Show their disagreements with mandatory hijab laws and going into public and it got really viral and she was asking woman to take a video from themselves while wearing those white hijab on on public expires on Wednesday and sharing with her.

00:28:37 Speaker 2

She was sharing it and it got really popular and she was basically focusing on mobilizing younger generation.

00:28:45 Speaker 2

The students, female students in schools to.

00:28:50 Speaker 2

Try to join their teachers, who were kind of at a time, I guess they were protesting some um rights for their like a specific like, right.

00:29:05 Speaker 2

I I cannot remember what was the title but the like person producing with their teachers as well.

00:29:10 Speaker 2

So basically, um, that was a very big.

00:29:15 Speaker 2

Movement.

00:29:17 Speaker 2

Uh, but it was mainly uh, happening throughout the account of this specific um activist and but but but with with the communication with women who actually were living in Iran and act like a posting giving like content to this journalist to post anyway.

00:29:39 Speaker 2

That was a story like and there were other other like before this specific timing point, there were other um.

00:29:47 Speaker 2

Uh, like poor test demonstration to like gatherings of woman who were kind of um, protesting mandatory hijab laws.

00:29:56 Speaker 2

Because woman was were trying to resist the mandatory job laws.

00:30:04 Speaker 2

Then, since 2005 or a bit later, the government started.

00:30:12 Speaker 2

Uh.

00:30:12 Speaker 2

Kind of an institution with name Morales.

00:30:17 Speaker 2

The police, which they were kind of recruiting people who was like a standing in the streets and public spaces and busy places in in the city and kind of policing woman’s hijab get there.

00:30:31 Speaker 1

OK, so in 2005, the morality police.

00:30:31 Speaker 2

What the more experience started working and I’m going kind of back and forth the the more people started working because women at the time was just on the really very proper hijab, quote unquote, according to what government wants them to do.

00:30:46 Speaker 2

So and and they were basically standing in the street.

00:30:51 Speaker 2

If something like finding someone who was not really having a proper her job, the.

00:30:56 Speaker 2

There was.

00:30:57 Speaker 2

There were two taking that person into a like car and taking that person into a station police station to do like getting, getting and kind of good guidance to onto how to properly cover themselves and having some some form sign up and then release them.

00:31:19 Speaker 2

And in um, two health.

00:31:22 Speaker 1

And this wasn’t sorry, sorry.

00:31:23 Speaker 1

Sorry but but and this wasn’t like people getting arrested, it wasn’t that they weren’t wearing a hijab.

00:31:23 Speaker 2

No, no, no.

00:31:29 Speaker 1

Right.

00:31:30 Speaker 1

Like it was that they were like it was like a skew or like they weren’t like, like they just weren’t wearing it like, perfectly.

00:31:38 Speaker 1

Is that accurate?

00:31:38 Speaker 2

Exactly.

00:31:39 Speaker 2

Or like wearing too much.

00:31:41 Speaker 2

Makeup it and it was not.

00:31:43 Speaker 2

Be like it was super subjective, like it it depends on how like the person who is kind of in charge of arresting someone was perceiving the persons whose approaching them to drive.

00:31:53 Speaker 1

No.

00:31:54 Speaker 1

But this wasn’t like women were walking around like this wasn’t like politically active women necessarily, who were getting arrested.

00:32:00 Speaker 1

This is just like everyday women who are just.

00:32:02 Speaker 1

Like.

00:32:03 Speaker 2

Exactly.

00:32:03 Speaker 1

They’re tired.

00:32:03

OK.

00:32:04 Speaker 1

They’re like, yeah.

00:32:05 Speaker 2

Stopping their daily lives.

00:32:07 Speaker 1

And it was like, but they’re trying.

00:32:08 Speaker 1

To do what they’re supposed to do.

00:32:09 Speaker 1

They just like we’re sloppy or I don’t wanna even say say that like it was just like, whatever.

00:32:14 Speaker 1

They weren’t doing it according to how this, whatever the ******* cop thought they should be doing. Yeah.

00:32:19 Speaker 2

Exactly.

00:32:20 Speaker 2

And that some?

00:32:21 Speaker 2

And the the, the, I I talked about the my sister Freedom movement, which was kind of happening after this like having this morality police stations all over the city.

00:32:32 Speaker 2

And there were some encounters.

00:32:33 Speaker 2

There were some like tension between an not necessarily because of this movement, like women were kind of resisting to getting into those cars, to being poised that way and like there were like, some strategies is it’s kind of funny that like there were some apps showing.

00:32:49 Speaker 2

And I I’m not sure if it’s like going on, but like there was some apps showing that there are the morality police in the city.

00:32:55 Speaker 2

So you can find your way to not really.

00:32:55

Ohio.

00:32:57 Speaker 1

Right.

00:33:00 Speaker 2

Bring that.

00:33:00 Speaker 1

That’s so interesting.

00:33:00 Speaker 2

What’s his name?

00:33:01 Speaker 1

That’s like it’s like Google Maps.

00:33:03 Speaker 1

Now when I’m driving, it’ll be like there’s a police officer here.

00:33:03

Yeah, exactly. Yes.

00:33:06 Speaker 1

So there there be like, there’s the morality police avoid this quote, right?

00:33:09 Speaker 2

Yeah, me and my manager job.

00:33:11 Speaker 1

Wow.

00:33:11

It’s.

00:33:11 Speaker 1

Wow man. Technology.

00:33:12

1st.

00:33:13 Speaker 2

Yeah, you know.

00:33:14 Speaker 2

But in 2022? Cool.

00:33:17 Speaker 2

Uh woman got arrested by morality police and that person named Masai mini got uh like died in while.

00:33:31 Speaker 2

Uh under the arrest of morality.

00:33:34 Speaker 2

Rights and that sparked very, very big uh demonstration and movement against not necessarily mandatory job lot but the like.

00:33:35

Now.

00:33:46 Speaker 2

Fun fundamental values of Islamic Republic as a government.

00:33:48 Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:33:50 Speaker 1

Well, so was she killed by the morality police?

00:33:53 Speaker 2

Well, uh, well, they never.

00:33:54 Speaker 1

Aren’t she just?

00:33:54 Speaker 1

She died.

00:33:55 Speaker 1

We don’t know, probably.

00:33:59 Speaker 2

Acknowledge that it was anything like the encounter between police and that person.

00:34:05 Speaker 2

There’s but but the.

00:34:07 Speaker 2

People walk like because like the the the card that they got people in there, it’s not only police and one person, there are other people and it’s being said that like there was some tension, there were some physical violence against that.

00:34:22 Speaker 2

Uh here, while this was in in car, but the police said that they didn’t have their camera on at the time they got ohk.

00:34:23 Speaker 1

Rain like the witnesses.

00:34:32 Speaker 1

That’s always amazing how they never have their cameras on when they do something more able, you know.

00:34:35 Speaker 2

Yeah, exactly.

00:34:37 Speaker 2

So.

00:34:37 Speaker 2

So the only the only the.

00:34:40

Yeah.

00:34:41 Speaker 2

Footprint that is like Romain and everyone watched it, is where, um, massage.

00:34:49 Speaker 2

You know, was in the morality police station and that like, she just falling.

00:34:55 Speaker 2

And then then after two days or three days, she died in a hospital.

00:35:01 Speaker 2

And so, um, but but like, because of all the brutality of police towards women while policing her.

00:35:09 Speaker 2

Talk and people were not really unfamiliar with the fine like and and it’s it was actually kind of known and it is known that it’s it’s it should be on them because it’s on like she was under the.

00:35:22 Speaker 2

Custody of police.

00:35:23 Speaker 2

So it right or responsibility too?

00:35:24

Speaker.

00:35:24 Speaker 1

Yeah, not not let their people die.

00:35:28 Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:29 Speaker 2

Exactly.

00:35:30 Speaker 2

And um, so um and I haven’t traveled to Iran since.

00:35:35 Speaker 2

Hmm.

00:35:36 Speaker 2

2021 when I started the program here in Ottawa, but from the video that I see from the people that who travel and.

00:35:45 Speaker 2

I talked to them.

00:35:46 Speaker 2

I know that’s um, it’s um, not really like.

00:35:52 Speaker 2

Morality police might be sell in a public spheres, but because um of the like power of society and the the way that people in Iran showed that it’s, they’re not really going along with this ridiculous law and it it the the the harsh encounters is not really being happening a lot.

00:36:15 Speaker 2

Like I can say that like it happened like last two years, it happen.

00:36:20 Speaker 2

There are two three times that there were, like some harsh encounters, but the police ended up apologizing a he’s a big when, I guess, like it used to be like, OK, we want to hit, we will hit.

00:36:33 Speaker 2

It doesn’t really like you shouldn’t really play.

00:36:33 Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:36:34 Speaker 1

Yeah, cause wasn’t it?

00:36:36 Speaker 1

Like women, like the stuff.

00:36:37 Speaker 1

Some of the stories I’ve heard of, like what women were like protesting, like, not like they weren’t just like taking off their hijabs and like joining a March.

00:36:47 Speaker 1

They were like, we’re like mocking leaders like that like it.

00:36:52 Speaker 1

It was like an explosion across the country of women. Just.

00:36:56 Speaker 1

Like basically being like hell.

00:36:59 Speaker 1

No, we’re done with you like knocking off.

00:37:03 Speaker 2

Yeah, that’s that’s true.

00:37:04 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:37:04 Speaker 2

Yeah, and it was not only women.

00:37:06 Speaker 2

And that was the beauty of all these move and it was not necessarily woman protesting this.

00:37:06 Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah.

00:37:13 Speaker 2

It was men as well.

00:37:14 Speaker 2

And they were kind of backing a woman who were protesting against, not necessarily mandatory job lot, but lots of other failures of the system.

00:37:24 Speaker 2

But um woman life, I would like to call it normal life.

00:37:24 Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:37:27 Speaker 2

Liberty, then freedom because of.

00:37:29 Speaker 2

Like the uh meaning of liberty, I I find it more positive than freedom.

00:37:36

Uh.

00:37:36 Speaker 1

Tell me.

00:37:37 Speaker 1

Tell me more.

00:37:38 Speaker 1

What do you mean?

00:37:38 Speaker 2

Well, in general, when when do you think of freedom?

00:37:42 Speaker 2

It’s in my head and I I think it would become somehow true that you’re thinking of freedom from.

00:37:49 Speaker 2

It is kind of looking backward.

00:37:51 Speaker 2

You just like.

00:37:51 Speaker 2

You don’t want something, but it’s not really a striving for something.

00:37:56 Speaker 2

To.

00:37:56 Speaker 2

But when when you think of normal life, liberty, liberty is like looking forward to achieve liberty, to find something that requires something is not really something that you don’t want, but is actually something that you want to have.

00:38:11 Speaker 1

I love that.

00:38:12 Speaker 1

I love that it’s like liberation, liberty.

00:38:15 Speaker 1

I love it.

00:38:16 Speaker 1

I love that.

00:38:17 Speaker 1

So let’s go back to your research.

00:38:19 Speaker 1

I mean, this is all context.

00:38:21 Speaker 1

It’s actually funny because I often mention how I was trained in quantitative methods and when I got my and my job interview at the University of Ottawa, I was asked by a colleague like can you provide like a context where you’re talking about?

00:38:34 Speaker 1

And I was like.

00:38:36 Speaker 1

Like I don’t.

00:38:37 Speaker 1

Know about and it was like so embarrassing to me.

00:38:39 Speaker 1

And so now I’m like context context context, but I just think it’s like it’s like I get why it’s, you know, nothing happens in a vacuum.

00:38:48 Speaker 1

Everything like nothing.

00:38:51 Speaker 1

I mean, this is part of the paper that we’re wanting to work on is it’s like if we’re just looking at this little brief moment in time, we really miss so much about sort of why it’s like, how to understand why something is happening, if you don’t have that historical context, it’s like.

00:39:07 Speaker 1

It’s it’s just doesn’t.

00:39:10 Speaker 1

We’re going to miss really important explanations that anyway, so that’s all to say.

00:39:15 Speaker 1

Like, I’m so glad we went down that road of context.

00:39:18 Speaker 1

So to get into your and obviously a lot of that was what was in your desert like your first dissertation.

00:39:25 Speaker 1

I still can’t believe you’re doing 2 dissertations anyway.

00:39:28 Speaker 1

And then the.

00:39:29 Speaker 1

But so a lot of that was sort of context was there.

00:39:33 Speaker 1

Um, but and now you’re looking at sexuality?

00:39:36 Speaker 1

And so the point that you were making before at the start is that you’re sort of noticed.

00:39:41 Speaker 1

You know, so we can see that there are some significant differences like there isn’t a morality police in Canada like there, but they’re definitely are social norms.

00:39:49 Speaker 1

I mean, they’re definitely are there is the policing of our you know, based on moralizing and we can see in the most recent US.

00:39:55 Speaker 1

Presidential election evidence of, you know, like there’s there’s something like listening to you talk about the women of Iran.

00:40:02 Speaker 1

This actually bringing me a lot of hope and like it’s like no people can actually like fight against tyranny.

00:40:08 Speaker 1

That’s that’s a thing and win.

00:40:10 Speaker 1

Um.

00:40:11 Speaker 1

But so.

00:40:12 Speaker 1

So tell me more about sort of in terms of like women’s sexuality, their agency, their ability to sort of think about these kinds of choices about what they’re going to do with their bodies.

00:40:22 Speaker 1

Um, like what are you?

00:40:25 Speaker 1

I know that you haven’t finished like collect.

00:40:28 Speaker 1

I have you.

00:40:29 Speaker 1

Have you’re still collecting data, or you’re still analyzing data?

00:40:31 Speaker 1

I think but.

00:40:32 Speaker 2

Well, yeah, I I finished collecting data.

00:40:35 Speaker 2

I finished all the interviews, but I need to start analyzing them and I’m on that point.

00:40:39 Speaker 1

Hmm.

00:40:42 Speaker 2

But like when I was collecting the interviews, when I was interviewing different woman.

00:40:48 Speaker 2

I was taking some notes and interestingly like the the the the point that’s like it’s important to know that the the the there is no specific policies about like how to prevent sexual violence in Iran.

00:41:06 Speaker 2

There are some policies about rape is specifically and St. harassment, but not about like ****** marriage or like sexual harassment in general.

00:41:18 Speaker 2

So there is imagine there is non but in the context of Canada there is a lot of policies.

00:41:27

This.

00:41:28 Speaker 2

Addressing the sexual violence trying to prevent it in different levels from starting from federal to the university campuses.

00:41:36 Speaker 2

But interestingly, women in both settings have experienced sexual violence.

00:41:42 Speaker 2

Kind of trying to.

00:41:46 Speaker 2

Exercise their agency.

00:41:47 Speaker 2

Despite like, let’s say in Iran, if you are not really quote unquote.

00:41:52 Speaker 2

Did you can like?

00:41:53 Speaker 2

It’s not allowed for you to have sexual intercourse.

00:41:57 Speaker 1

Oh wow, yeah.

00:41:58 Speaker 2

So, like and people are doing their lives and people are doing their lives and it’s it’s really fascinating to me that like women in both settings are kind of exercising either agency but encountering violence ohhhhh regardless of presence or absence of sexual violence prevention policies.

00:42:01 Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:42:21 Speaker 1

That’s so fascinating.

00:42:22 Speaker 1

That’s so.

00:42:23 Speaker 1

I mean, it’s like in a certain sense, it’s like, oh, yeah, obviously.

00:42:28 Speaker 1

But in another sense, it’s.

00:42:29 Speaker 1

Like, it’s also just pointing to like why the limits of law like the limits of sort of liberal approaches of, like legislating against things and how and also just how much I mean all of this story is also about how people who are not power holders have to make decisions in their lives and like sort of navigate and negotiate the world.

00:42:58 Speaker 1

In a way that wasn’t set up to benefit them necessarily, you know.

00:43:01 Speaker 2

Exactly.

00:43:02 Speaker 2

And you mentioned social norm, that it was really true, like social norms and what are very, very important and forming our behaviors and our belief.

00:43:12 Speaker 2

But at the same time, if we want to get to the point in our society, I’m talking about the Canada, specifically the contact.

00:43:19 Speaker 2

If we’re thinking of like having you and society free from sexual violence, as long as we don’t have a sexual violence prevention like sex, sex, education.

00:43:31 Speaker 2

Uh, like a comprehensive sex education course?

00:43:34 Speaker 2

For everyone who is living in Canada, we cannot really expect them to.

00:43:39 Speaker 2

Just you need to know there’s a policy you haven’t read it like, of course.

00:43:43 Speaker 2

It’s not gonna happen.

00:43:44 Speaker 2

Like no you need.

00:43:45 Speaker 2

To teach people to change a behavior.

00:43:48 Speaker 2

We cannot really assume that because we stopped like we passed log.

00:43:53 Speaker 2

It’s gonna happen by just like a billing.

00:43:53

Free.

00:43:56 Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, totally, totally.

00:43:58 Speaker 1

And I think it’s also interesting, again, this idea of like you know.

00:44:03 Speaker 1

But that’s kind of self-righteous idea that people in Canada, the US can think like, oh, that violence in Iran is just so offensive.

00:44:12 Speaker 1

And it’s, you know, like how can women stand in?

00:44:14 Speaker 1

It’s like, but women are being policed via violence all the time in Canada.

00:44:19 Speaker 1

But it’s by their boyfriends or their husbands or, you know, like, you know, like I I, you know, heard stories of people where they’re.

00:44:30 Speaker 1

Boyfriends roofied them.

00:44:33 Speaker 1

Um to help them learn how they need to be more careful when they go out like it’s disgusting.

00:44:39 Speaker 1

Like it’s it’s horrifying, you know, of how, you know, the kinds of ways in which, like, women can be controlled through violence.

00:44:50 Speaker 1

That is, even sometimes in this like.

00:44:54 Speaker 1

Backwards, like I’m gonna help you.

00:44:57 Speaker 1

Like altruistic violence or something weird, you know?

00:45:02 Speaker 2

I think and it’s at the intersectional lens to our like analysis, we can see how even police is being like violent towards women of colour, woman of like minority and and and the kind of like, but not necessarily just like physical violence, but sexual violence as well.

00:45:03

Yeah.

00:45:25 Speaker 2

And it and the record is there, but unfortunately lots, lots, lots of things that we take for granted.

00:45:34 Speaker 2

It’s just like, OK, so we have the basic rights here.

00:45:37 Speaker 2

We have the policy, but no, it’s not necessarily being exercised in Our daily lives.

00:45:42 Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, this is also fascinating.

00:45:44 Speaker 1

I think so interesting and I’m super excited and interested to know like I wanna read it after your analysis is done.

00:45:51 Speaker 1

But I also have some questions I want to ask you about.

00:45:54 Speaker 1

Just like being a graduate student, getting into this research and why?

00:45:59 Speaker 1

Why did you do 2 PHD’s?

00:46:03 Speaker 2

It’s just like, yeah, that’s a question that I encounter alone.

00:46:06 Speaker 2

And that’s a fair question.

00:46:07 Speaker 2

It’s not really.

00:46:08 Speaker 2

A route that sound like people usually go but.

00:46:13 Speaker 2

1st I been always interested in, um, like a studying gender and sexuality.

00:46:20 Speaker 2

And um, I know that like I I could have done it as part of my career in, in academia, but at the same time I wanted to be kind of trained with feminist perspective.

00:46:34 Speaker 2

Even like I I was in sociology departments, I was working with different feminists, but like having the opportunity to working closely and reading closely material from, like great feminists, it’s different.

00:46:50 Speaker 2

That was one, and then a second.

00:46:53 Speaker 2

What?

00:46:54 Speaker 2

Uh my my home and my plan is going back to Iran, University of Tehran, Iran University and working on the topic of generous sexuality as well as social mobilization.

00:47:06 Speaker 2

And to be able to do that, I know my fellow.

00:47:12 Speaker 2

Professors at the University of Tehran.

00:47:15 Speaker 2

They are like they want to be kind of sure and and that’s not really well topic that there are some groups working on this topic, but it’s not really formally part of the institution right now.

00:47:29 Speaker 2

And I’m hoping to go back and doing and more like helping with other folks activating this specific, um, uh branch of research in, uh, the University of Tehran.

00:47:44 Speaker 2

And that was yes.

00:47:44 Speaker 1

That’s amazing.

00:47:47 Speaker 1

That is so cool.

00:47:48 Speaker 1

So so they don’t.

00:47:49 Speaker 1

There’s no like gender studies department or something.

00:47:51 Speaker 1

There.

00:47:52 Speaker 2

Well, there is a women’s studies, but I’m not really like in close relationship.

00:47:58 Speaker 2

I know that like studying sexuality few years ago when I was about to start the program here.

00:48:04 Speaker 2

Um, the one of the professors there.

00:48:08 Speaker 2

Um, who was the head of sociology department at a time, was like asking me questions.

00:48:16 Speaker 2

Like what do you do?

00:48:17 Speaker 2

OK, we need people like you come by to do teach.

00:48:20 Speaker 2

I was like, OK, and he was asking me, what did you do was like, OK, I taught social sociology of sexuality.

00:48:27 Speaker 2

And he said remove it from your.

00:48:30

Oh.

00:48:32 Speaker 2

They don’t like it.

00:48:32 Speaker 2

They don’t like it here.

00:48:34 Speaker 2

They don’t talk to other people.

00:48:34 Speaker 1

Oht, like just from your CV, even just like using the word sexuality.

00:48:37 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:48:37 Speaker 2

I don’t really talk about it and I was talking to other like one of the other professors like I’m I will be working on this topic at the University of Ottawa.

00:48:38 Speaker 1

Oh my God.

00:48:46 Speaker 2

Just so you know, and I still want to come back and.

00:48:49 Speaker 2

Work on this topics, yeah.

00:48:50 Speaker 1

That’s awesome.

00:48:51 Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:48:52 Speaker 1

It’s so true, though, that it’s like, you know, I another.

00:48:56 Speaker 1

Guest on the podcast.

00:48:57 Speaker 1

Tyler Escott, who’s getting his PhD at the Institute now as well.

00:49:03 Speaker 1

Like he’s looking at sex and but, like, *********** and sex work.

00:49:08 Speaker 1

And like he was just saying how no one will talk about sex.

00:49:11 Speaker 1

And and I also know from a number of years ago there’s a woman.

00:49:17 Speaker 1

What’s your first name?

00:49:18 Speaker 1

I’m forgetting tiffert leonore tieffer.

00:49:20 Speaker 1

She’s a sexologist and I she came to a Acadia when I was there and she was pointing out that like there’s only like there are very few sexology programs around the world like Thor in the North America or in the United States, I think there’s one of the University Of Montreal but and one in San Francisco but it’s.

00:49:41 Speaker 1

Like and it’s so bizarre because it’s.

00:49:44 Speaker 1

I mean, I get it because people are uncomfortable talking about it, but it’s like and, you know, you could have, you know, there’s sexuality.

00:49:52 Speaker 1

Studies could be in psychology or sociology and all kinds of other fields, but it’s also like it’s so central to human life.

00:49:59 Speaker 1

And yet, you know, everyone has an economics department.

00:50:02 Speaker 1

But like where people not talking about sex, you know, no offence.

00:50:07 Speaker 1

Economics, but it just it just.

00:50:10 Speaker 1

But that’s awesome.

00:50:11 Speaker 1

That’s, um that you wanted that.

00:50:14 Speaker 1

You wanna do that?

00:50:15 Speaker 1

And so like, what do you find?

00:50:18 Speaker 1

I’m curious.

00:50:19 Speaker 1

I mean I can.

00:50:20 Speaker 1

Especially because I was, you know, department chair, the institute last year.

00:50:23 Speaker 1

But my trainings in sociology and I’m a sociologist like and it I I I definitely feel like there’s a difference between sociology and feminist and gender studies or women studies.

00:50:33 Speaker 1

Whatever you wanna sort of call that quote unquote discipline, how do you see like, what do you, what do you see are the are some of the differences or similarities that like what do you what do you?

00:50:44 Speaker 1

That from feminist and gender studies that you don’t give from sociology or vice versa.

00:50:50 Speaker 2

Well, from what I understood and I learned so far that there’s a difference in mythology.

00:50:58 Speaker 2

Of course, like I still think as a sociologist, I still am trained and I’m more comfortable with go see ological perspective and lucky implementing them.

00:51:10 Speaker 2

Ethology coming from sociology, background.

00:51:14 Speaker 2

But I know that not everyone in the feminist and gender that is woman says they don’t necessarily need to follow all the steps that we do.

00:51:21 Speaker 2

And sociology.

00:51:23 Speaker 2

And I find it different.

00:51:25 Speaker 2

My brain is not really trained that way, so I’m I’m currently being sociologist but and and there is a practice of being more leftist.

00:51:33 Speaker 2

I guess in women studies department and being more radical comparing to sociology, I guess it’s and that is that is very good like even though I myself I’m not really super radical person I.

00:51:48 Speaker 2

The um.

00:51:49 Speaker 2

Kind of find myself um the closest.

00:51:52 Speaker 2

Uh.

00:51:52 Speaker 2

In in, um, sociological approach.

00:51:57 Speaker 2

Critical.

00:51:58 Speaker 2

Functionalist again, OK, but the but in in, if women feminists in gender studies is more of a critical perspective, which is really, really important and necessary essential to have, because if we don’t have those two parts of like power dimension like having one to try to maintain the.

00:52:01 Speaker 1

It’s just.

00:52:20 Speaker 2

Uh.

00:52:20 Speaker 2

Structures and uh settings in place and want to try to kind of address the parts that are not really working well on trying to kind of transform what is there.

00:52:31 Speaker 2

So when we need those two actually kind of, um, um.

00:52:39 Speaker 2

Aspects to knowledge and the the way to see social sciences in general, to kind of.

00:52:45 Speaker 2

Develop and promote humans condition even while having the kind of basis for life.

00:52:53 Speaker 2

I don’t know if I’m yeah.

00:52:55 Speaker 1

No, no, no, I I get what you’re saying and it’s like a two different approaches to understanding the world and and it’s.

00:53:02 Speaker 1

Yeah, it’s interesting there.

00:53:03 Speaker 1

Moments where I’m like, uh, I wish I was just always that the institute, because I just.

00:53:08 Speaker 1

So I mean, I love all the props there.

00:53:10 Speaker 1

And you know, it’s just like felt very much at home.

00:53:14 Speaker 1

But then there also are moments where I’m like, I’m a sociologist.

00:53:17 Speaker 1

Like I really you know, I mean, photos and gender studies is interdisciplinary and my bachelor’s degree was interdisciplinary in the humanities.

00:53:25 Speaker 1

So I I have that sort of background, but I still am like I need evidence I need like I need.

00:53:36 Speaker 1

We need to take your opinion out of it.

00:53:38 Speaker 1

Like, I just like sociology.

00:53:39 Speaker 1

Really kicks your *** and grad school.

00:53:41 Speaker 1

Like have or at least I probably North Texas and where I was in Iowa, it’s like a very sort of, I don’t know about North Texas, but I I’m kind of assuming it’s kind of like a traditional mid century American sociology.

00:53:46

Yeah.

00:53:55 Speaker 1

Like, I think there’s there’s sociologists at different places now who do much more progressive stuff, but my training was very much in the sort of classical traditional approach which there are times where it’s like, Oh my God, that’s missing stuff.

00:54:09 Speaker 1

There’s something wrong, and then there’s other times I’m like but.

00:54:11 Speaker 1

This is systematic.

00:54:13 Speaker 1

This is we need.

00:54:15 Speaker 1

This is all you.

00:54:15 Speaker 1

Have to do is but then anyway.

00:54:18 Speaker 1

But yeah, interesting.

00:54:19

Yes.

00:54:20 Speaker 1

And what about what about like advice?

00:54:22 Speaker 1

Because you’re an international student.

00:54:23 Speaker 1

So do you have advice for other people you know wanting to pursue a PhD or wanting to pursue a life as a researcher?

00:54:32 Speaker 1

And.

00:54:32 Speaker 1

Especially as international students, what are like, what’s that?

00:54:35 Speaker 1

What’s that been like?

00:54:36 Speaker 1

I mean, aside from having ridiculously high tuition, that is like, I don’t know how you will pay it.

00:54:43 Speaker 2

But me myself, I.

00:54:43

What?

00:54:47 Speaker 2

I have the um like in Iran.

00:54:49 Speaker 2

Uh.

00:54:50 Speaker 2

Another good thing that you have is public school, which is like a quality of a school is I’m I’m talking about university.

00:54:58 Speaker 2

We have public school and like other like earlier elementary or secondary school, but I’m talking specifically about universities.

00:55:08 Speaker 2

Behave public schools and universities.

00:55:10 Speaker 2

We don’t.

00:55:10 Speaker 2

You don’t have to pay.

00:55:11 Speaker 2

We need to have it like national test and after that like the ones who do better.

00:55:17 Speaker 2

They can get into those public schools, which are.

00:55:21 Speaker 2

In most cases, better at schools and um for those, like all of my degrees, were kind of paid all the time, and I like little payments here and there.

00:55:30

Yeah.

00:55:34 Speaker 2

But like, not really.

00:55:35 Speaker 2

And I have the mindsets, weirdly, and I know that it’s not really well known here in North America, but I I believe that if if I’m studying and I’m in to be able to kind of person, uh, serve society, I shouldn’t really pay.

00:55:49 Speaker 2

I know it’s revolutionary, but like, that’s my mindset.

00:55:52 Speaker 2

I should have pay, so I don’t know.

00:55:53

Yeah.

00:55:55 Speaker 2

An international student, it’s not really easy here.

00:55:58

There.

00:55:59 Speaker 2

Uh, because, um, the opportunities are very limited.

00:56:03 Speaker 2

Very, very limited, but um, maybe it’s not necessarily the the thing that I want to say.

00:56:11 Speaker 2

It’s not necessarily concerning international students, but all the graduate students I I think if there is opportunities there, if your domestic a student in Canada and can apply for sure and Oh no for Ontario people OGS or I don’t know other provinces, they may.

00:56:28 Speaker 2

Help other and well grants go for it and don’t really hesitate apply, apply, apply and and try to get them because that makes your life way easier.

00:56:37 Speaker 2

You don’t have to necessarily work for those hours of like for those like checks that’s coming to your bank account.

00:56:45

This.

00:56:45

So that’s you.

00:56:45 Speaker 2

You have the piece of.

00:56:46 Speaker 2

Mind do it well.

00:56:47 Speaker 1

This.

00:56:48 Speaker 1

You’re working for it.

00:56:49 Speaker 1

It’s just you’re working on your own room.

00:56:50 Speaker 2

Unordered dictation you have to work on that anyway.

00:56:50 Speaker 1

Search in somebody elses work.

00:56:53

Yeah.

00:56:55 Speaker 1

Yeah.

00:56:55 Speaker 2

Yeah.

00:56:56 Speaker 2

The money or not?

00:56:57 Speaker 1

Yeah, true, true.

00:56:58

It’s.

00:56:58 Speaker 1

Good point, good point.

00:56:59 Speaker 2

But.

00:56:59 Speaker 2

But yeah, if there is opportunities for you, just try to do it.

00:57:04 Speaker 2

Don’t really think that it.

00:57:06 Speaker 2

Maybe my topic is not really interested.

00:57:08 Speaker 2

I’m trying to ask your professors try to ask the people who are like actually had that, like I don’t know previous cohorts in your program asked them and ask them for their advice.

00:57:20 Speaker 2

And the thing that I learned and it worked super like well in my favor.

00:57:26 Speaker 2

Um, try to build a community in your department, in your school like I started working with the feminist and gender studies graduates association and Iranian Students Association I after a year I stopped working with Iranian students association.

00:57:44 Speaker 2

But I joined.

00:57:45 Speaker 2

Different committees to which was kind of relate more related to my topic working on with working with Feminist Resource Centre and I’m still sitting.

00:57:56 Speaker 2

Actually, I’m chairing the Committee on Sexual Violence Prevention at the University of Ottawa, and those opportunities you’re helping me to.

00:58:03

Well.

00:58:07

Who?

00:58:08 Speaker 2

What kind of learning?

00:58:09 Speaker 2

More about the campuses atmosphere and also like learning more about the topic that I’m working on.

00:58:16 Speaker 2

Maybe it’s not the case for you.

00:58:17 Speaker 2

If you were like mechanical engineer, I don’t know.

00:58:19

And.

00:58:20 Speaker 2

I don’t know the listener or I don’t know, like if you’re working on the some topics that are not really like anything going on on campus, but at the same time, if you’re getting in touch with your fellow graduate students in your program in the Graduate Student Association, which I assume most of the school have it.

00:58:37 Speaker 2

Um, you can help the new cohorts and you can get help from previous one and there are there is always some people who have this same mindset.

00:58:49 Speaker 2

It helps you to.

00:58:50 Speaker 2

Not really being isolated for the years that you were done with your coursework, you just and I don’t know, like last year started.

00:58:57 Speaker 2

I started and with other folks the monthly lunch and learn which you were kind enough to like attending a couple of meetings and it was really.

00:59:07 Speaker 2

Hard, but the rules.

00:59:08 Speaker 1

It’s fun.

00:59:08 Speaker 2

Ohl and despite you were super busy, you were really kind to attend those meetings and answering.

00:59:14 Speaker 1

No, I loved it.

00:59:15 Speaker 1

I love.

00:59:16 Speaker 1

I love helping graduate student.

00:59:18 Speaker 1

This is why I’m doing this podcast in my website.

00:59:20 Speaker 1

It’s like I love, like helping people who because both of my parents were proofs.

00:59:26 Speaker 1

So it’s like I always had my parents where I could ask them and it’s like.

00:59:31 Speaker 1

But the things that I know that like I got to know everybody doesn’t get to have that.

00:59:35 Speaker 1

It’s like you enter school and I mean, I’m surprised by how many students, like, especially international students I find, and I think it’s because.

00:59:43 Speaker 1

It takes a lot to be an international student, but a lot more international students seem to have parents who were also academics.

00:59:50 Speaker 1

It’s for some of them anyway.

00:59:52 Speaker 1

And their home countries.

00:59:54 Speaker 1

But for a lot of people, it’s like this is even.

00:59:56 Speaker 1

But even then, it’s a totally different system here than it is.

00:59:59 Speaker 1

Wherever you’re from.

01:00:01 Speaker 1

And so I love getting to like help explain things that seem sort of obvious to people who’ve been academia while but isn’t obvious.

01:00:10 Speaker 1

Um to people just starting out.

01:00:12 Speaker 1

It’s my favorite.

01:00:12 Speaker 1

It’s my jam, so I love.

01:00:14 Speaker 1

I love doing those lunch and learns I’ll do them again, even though I’m not even in the unit and home.

01:00:18 Speaker 2

Yeah, he’s come.

01:00:18 Speaker 1

This shut up.

01:00:20

Yeah.

01:00:22 Speaker 2

Yes, I think that’s that’s very, very important because it’s you don’t you never know, but it it can open doors.

01:00:31

Yes.

01:00:32 Speaker 2

Like by getting in like into involving Iranian association, I met a friend and she introduced me to digital Humanities Lab and I’m still working with that lab and that’s important.

01:00:44 Speaker 2

Like and also I’m working with like last year.

01:00:48 Speaker 2

I went to a meeting.

01:00:50 Speaker 2

Um, it was it was open house, I guess with Catherine at the time, she was the graduate student advisor and I.

01:00:59 Speaker 2

Like Terry, who’s um working with.

01:01:04 Speaker 1

Yeah, he’s in the Deans office in the Grad studies office.

01:01:05 Speaker 2

Yeah.

01:01:05 Speaker 2

Didn’t.

01:01:06 Speaker 2

Like I’m.

01:01:06 Speaker 1

At the Deans office, yeah.

01:01:07 Speaker 2

I’m I’m sitting on on, on, on those committees, the the Committee, graduate Student Essays committees, and it opened door for me.

01:01:16 Speaker 2

And yeah, in those meeting, I got to meet.

01:01:19 Speaker 2

Ah, another professor from sociology.

01:01:22 Speaker 2

And you like I Was.

01:01:24 Speaker 2

This also close with you for different stuff and like I started working with sociology department so those are the ways that you can open up your opportunities by just sitting in your office and just doing your work.

01:01:38 Speaker 2

That’s very rewarding.

01:01:39 Speaker 2

That’s very important.

01:01:40 Speaker 2

That’s the priority, but at the same time, you need to make sure that you are expanding your opportunities because there is not much like opportunities as specifically again for international students and if you?

01:01:52 Speaker 2

Don’t really.

01:01:53 Speaker 2

Um.

01:01:54 Speaker 2

Present yourself and you you won’t be active.

01:01:57 Speaker 2

You’ll be at the end.

01:02:00 Speaker 2

You can defend your pieces, but I don’t know like having the opportunity to publish with different people having the opportunity to meet different people.

01:02:08 Speaker 2

Having the opportunity to present in different places, so those are the things that you cannot really won’t do by all these.

01:02:14 Speaker 2

Like just focusing on your thesis, I know that most of the advisors are like kind of, um, eager to help you to just go out like a start and finish in the timely manner.

01:02:28 Speaker 2

But at the same time.

01:02:29 Speaker 2

After graduation, you want to get a job, so you need to be cautious of that.

01:02:33 Speaker 2

You need to have like publications.

01:02:35 Speaker 2

That’s another thing that you need to be make sure that like you have something even small.

01:02:40 Speaker 2

Like if there’s an announcement, make sure to submit something for them and try to have as much as publications as.

01:02:50

I the.

01:02:51 Speaker 2

For the better.

01:02:52 Speaker 1

Yeah, totally.

01:02:53 Speaker 1

And I think like what you’re pointing to, I think sometimes students can feel really shy, like, oh, I’m scared to come to my go talk to professors.

01:03:00 Speaker 1

But it’s and there are professors that are hard to get ahold of.

01:03:04 Speaker 1

I’m always telling people like send me a follow up e-mail because I always for like I’ll read a message and then I forget to mark as unread and then I lose it all.

01:03:11 Speaker 1

So, so bad.

01:03:14 Speaker 1

But it’s like, I mean, you and I just knew each other like I was a new director and you just came in to chat because you were on the grad student association.

01:03:22 Speaker 1

And like we chatted about stuff, but I was interested in your research.

01:03:25 Speaker 1

And then it was like you just came back again.

01:03:28 Speaker 1

And like, we just sort of developed, you know a relationship and then it was like I knew that sociology is often looking for part-time instructors and you’re like, I would love to have some teaching experience.

01:03:40 Speaker 1

So I’m like, hey, department chair and sociology.

01:03:43 Speaker 1

She’s like a pal of mine if you, you know, fairness is great.

01:03:47 Speaker 1

Wanna put in the good like just putting the good word?

01:03:48 Speaker 1

And he was like, oh, good to know.

01:03:50 Speaker 1

Cause he didn’t know who you were because you’re in a different department like.

01:03:54 Speaker 1

And so it’s it’s just, it’s like weird how things like that.

01:03:58 Speaker 1

It’s not weird.

01:03:59 Speaker 1

That’s just social networks.

01:04:00 Speaker 1

That’s what’s that.

01:04:02 Speaker 1

Who’s that?

01:04:02 Speaker 1

Granovetter weak ties 1972 comprehensive exams will never will never die. But.

01:04:09 Speaker 1

Which is good.

01:04:09 Speaker 1

That’s what they’re supposed to do anyway.

01:04:11 Speaker 1

So with the strength of weak ties, you want to build those weak ties.

01:04:15 Speaker 1

As sociologists talk about, because that’s where you find out the opportunities.

01:04:19 Speaker 1

And so it doesn’t have to be anything like major.

01:04:22 Speaker 1

It’s not like you’re gonna have, you know, and also because supervisors, like, if you have a supervisor, they could be really busy or like me where I promise things that I.

01:04:30 Speaker 1

Never follow through.

01:04:31 Speaker 1

Because I get, I get so excited.

01:04:33 Speaker 1

I’m like, let’s do this project and that project.

01:04:35 Speaker 1

So it’s like you want to have like a few different things in the fire, so.

01:04:39 Speaker 1

If you know, or maybe you get the paper done and it’s rejected from the journal and so you wanna have a bunch of things on the go that so that you know you kind of always have this workflow happening so that something will eventually get published.

01:04:54 Speaker 1

And I also think really like something you I know have been involved in are like graduate student conferences and things like that which you know there there may be not like the most prestigious thing on Earth but they are so helpful because.

01:05:10 Speaker 1

Your it’s like you’re more comfortable, but like, it’s scary when you’re first presenting your research.

01:05:16 Speaker 1

I think you know it like at least for me, I felt really scared.

01:05:19 Speaker 1

Like this is a part of me.

01:05:20 Speaker 1

These are my ideas.

01:05:21 Speaker 1

If people critique them, they’ll little mean that I’m less of a person.

01:05:25 Speaker 1

And so it’s like, you know, it’s a little bit easier to do it among grad students that you know than it is like in front of like Mark Granovetter or something like famous sociologist at the American Sociological Association meetings.

01:05:38 Speaker 1

You know, so I think that that’s.

01:05:41 Speaker 1

You know and and and yeah, I mean, just as you said like the more people that you’re connecting with, you’re also getting more, like, not like mentoring, but kind of mentoring and like, more senior graduate students like, oh, you’re doing that.

01:05:55 Speaker 1

I could do that, which I also think is great.

01:05:56 Speaker 2

Exactly.

01:05:58 Speaker 1

Yeah.

01:05:58 Speaker 1

And also there’s fairness.

01:05:59 Speaker 1

Wrote an entry for doing Social Research.

01:06:02 Speaker 1

Some are put a link to it in the show notes, but you can also hear more of her recommendations for how to thrive in Graduate School there.

01:06:12 Speaker 1

Um, is there anything else?

01:06:14 Speaker 1

That we should talk about.

01:06:16 Speaker 1

Is there anything else that you wanna add before?

01:06:19 Speaker 1

Before we wrap up.

01:06:21 Speaker 2

OK.

01:06:21 Speaker 2

So one more thing that I recently learned that is kind of might be helpful and if you are.

01:06:31

Hmm.

01:06:32 Speaker 2

In grad school in general, and I think it would be more helpful for the folks that want to stay Academy in their career as as their career and you want publications and presentations and like having a kind of.

01:06:48 Speaker 2

Like be your CV.

01:06:51 Speaker 2

Um, there is like call for proposal call for abstract car for uh um papers and I think those are the places that might be more helpful for for you to start publishing because if there is a theme and there is a call for abstract the result like higher chance for you to.

01:07:15 Speaker 2

Hmm, be accepted at place at the in the 1st place, so just make sure to um here and there are take online with the keywords that you might like.

01:07:26 Speaker 2

The project that.

01:07:27 Speaker 2

You’re working on or the topic that you are thinking of publishing or presenting. So like I’m do, you have the opportunity to see what’s going on in those fields. Also sending those abstract.

01:07:40 Speaker 2

And then in case of acceptance, you can start writing.

01:07:43 Speaker 2

Yeah.

01:07:44 Speaker 2

So it it it helps your like I I I think I’m not 100% sure Youthless can of course you’re more experienced but yeah.

01:07:44 Speaker 1

Yeah.

01:07:53 Speaker 1

No, I think that’s really good advice.

01:07:55 Speaker 1

I hadn’t really thought about it.

01:07:57 Speaker 1

It’s like I like it.

01:07:59 Speaker 1

So you’re so smart.

01:08:00 Speaker 1

I think I often I’m like oh, wow, that’s like so cool.

01:08:03 Speaker 1

I was working on this thing and this call for papers applies, but you’re I’m doing it backwards.

01:08:08 Speaker 1

It’s like.

01:08:09 Speaker 1

I’m doing in the general area and then look for a call for papers and then develop a paper that would work for that is so smarter God.

01:08:17 Speaker 1

Anyway, I’ve only been doing this for too long anyway, but no, I think that’s so smart and also like because there’s call for papers like CFP’s or call for proposals like you could.

01:08:29 Speaker 1

People can go to the um.

01:08:31 Speaker 1

I often will go to the American Sociological Association, the Canadian Sociological Association, the International Sociological Association Association, the national Women’s Studies Association in the US, and the Canadian Association.

01:08:47 Speaker 1

That’s like feminist and gender studies keeps changing its name.

01:08:50 Speaker 1

But whatever is the latest name right now for them, but or what?

01:08:53 Speaker 1

You know, whatever you’re like political science.

01:08:56 Speaker 1

Um, you know.

01:08:57 Speaker 1

And also sometimes I think the chronicle of higher education in the US sometimes will this something list jobs there.

01:09:04 Speaker 1

Do they do?

01:09:04 Speaker 1

Call for proposals there or like university affairs, might also in Canada.

01:09:10 Speaker 1

Um, but yeah.

01:09:11 Speaker 1

So like you’re the professional association, the scholar, the Academic Association for whatever field you’re in.

01:09:18 Speaker 1

Oftentimes, they’ll be listings for either call for papers for a journal, for a special issue, or for a book.

01:09:26 Speaker 1

Sometimes if someone is doing an edited volume and they want, people could be for a conference, but absolutely cause another guess that I am just finalized.

01:09:35 Speaker 1

I should be releasing soon.

01:09:37 Speaker 1

Mike Allen, my friend from the University of Oregon, and he’s been a journal editor forever in comparative literature and.

01:09:44 Speaker 1

And he was saying that in the humanities, which I did not know, it’s like, almost all publications are invited.

01:09:52 Speaker 1

And so they only do like 1 issue a year.

01:09:54 Speaker 1

That’s just like open topic.

01:09:56 Speaker 1

So um, yeah.

01:09:58 Speaker 1

Which I was like, holy moly, how does anybody publish so like, he was just saying that it’s, you know, there’s a a much, there’s a lot of people who are publishing like or submitting articles to journals when it’s just sort of general and.

01:10:12 Speaker 1

And that he has an editor will have to think.

01:10:15 Speaker 1

You know, sometimes there could be a paper.

01:10:16 Speaker 1

That’s amazing, but they’ve just published two other similar articles are like, well, we don’t need another one of those.

01:10:21 Speaker 1

Whereas if you have a call for papers, it’s like you know that this is what they want.

01:10:26 Speaker 1

And so, because sometimes also we can like waiting.

01:10:30 Speaker 1

If you’re in grad, so do I think this is a brilliant idea, because if you’re a grad student, you need to get your publications like done like.

01:10:38 Speaker 1

It’s not like there’s, you know, you can have on your CV that it’s under review, but that doesn’t count the same as like actually.

01:10:46 Speaker 1

Acted like so there’s there’s a like there’s a there’s a kind of clock.

01:10:51 Speaker 1

Like there’s a timeline, and if you know when you submit a paper, it’s going to take weeks, probably months, before you hear back.

01:10:59 Speaker 1

So it’s if you have, there’s a little bit more as you said.

01:11:04 Speaker 1

It’s not just, it’s more likely to be accepted, but it’s less likely to be rejected on the grounds of not being.

01:11:10 Speaker 1

In the scope of what they’re looking, cause you already know what the scope is of what they’re looking at.

01:11:15 Speaker 1

So no, I think that’s a really, really good advice.

01:11:17 Speaker 1

Yeah, I like that.

01:11:18 Speaker 1

Thank you.

01:11:19 Speaker 1

Yeah, I’m glad that.

01:11:20 Speaker 2

Oht and I.

01:11:20 Speaker 2

Hope this works.

01:11:21 Speaker 2

Well, because the process of getting publications out, it’s kind of liked long, long and.

01:11:30 Speaker 1

It can be laughing.

01:11:32 Speaker 2

So it’s it’s good to kind of having some shortcut.

01:11:36 Speaker 2

That’s and another thing that I was thinking.

01:11:40 Speaker 2

OK, so like you said that some people might be shy and not really feeling comfortable approaching people.

01:11:47 Speaker 2

But remember that like if you were listening to this podcast, probably you are in social sciences and people in social sciences, they have some sort of like there’s a quality in people who are in social science as the professors, other folks, we have kind of all less mindset that we are like doing this kind of work.

01:12:07 Speaker 2

And there is like a kind of collective agreement, even though not written, that like we are.

01:12:15 Speaker 2

Kind of thinking of helping one another for total or it’s like when we want to do help the society in general, we want to help one another as well.

01:12:19 Speaker 1

OK. Really.

01:12:24 Speaker 2

So it’s it’s good to have this in mind and don’t really be afraid of, like, approaching people to ask for help.

01:12:30 Speaker 2

What?

01:12:31 Speaker 2

Like divorce, that can happen is just like nothing happened.

01:12:34 Speaker 2

And then it’s not really the worst and it’s it’s very, very like is based on my experience, most people are kind, even though they’re busy, they’d be like, OK, I cannot really do this now.

01:12:44 Speaker 2

But.

01:12:45 Speaker 2

Based like according to my experience like I don’t know seven years so far in in grad school, two different programs.

01:12:53 Speaker 2

Most people are kind.

01:12:54 Speaker 2

Most people are kind of like they they definitely willing to help you.

01:12:55

Sure.

01:13:00 Speaker 2

And don’t see it as just one way later on you in your career, you’re gonna just give it back to the commune.

01:13:08 Speaker 1

30.

01:13:08 Speaker 1

Yeah, totally.

01:13:09 Speaker 1

I mean, and I think that’s like what it is to be a professional is that it’s like we’re self governing and that’s, you know, I think why we can as professors get very annoyed with university administrations like when we are coming up against like we just had a strike vote with our Union.

01:13:24 Speaker 1

And one of the big issues is that is governance and that it’s like the administration wants to have more control.

01:13:32 Speaker 1

For, you know, all kinds of things.

01:13:34 Speaker 1

And it’s like, well, no, this is like, this is how professions work.

01:13:38 Speaker 1

It’s that we are self governing, that we are the ones like we’re the experts, like we don’t have managers and that requires that we are teaching others that we are bringing people into the fold and helping prepare them like that’s that’s our that’s our jam that’s our jam.

01:13:56 Speaker 1

And there was, oh, and another trick that I think I don’t know if it only works for me.

01:14:00 Speaker 1

I am such a sucker.

01:14:01 Speaker 1

For what?

01:14:02 Speaker 1

Like when you’re contacting a professor is if you talk about like my research and something like an article you’re at, people are getting wise to it.

01:14:10 Speaker 1

And so I’m getting more where people are city.

01:14:12 Speaker 1

Bring it.

01:14:13 Speaker 1

But in the I used to get emails to really be like hi I wanna study with you and I and and then like because I wanna do anything related to something in a university and I’m like well that’s I’m.

01:14:25 Speaker 1

I’m not going to reply because you don’t really know what you want to do, but when people like, say, send me an e-mail and are like I really enjoyed your book like you read my book ohhhhh.

01:14:35 Speaker 1

Yeah, I’ll talk to you if you read my book.

01:14:38 Speaker 1

Breastfeeding in the pursuit of happiness or whatever.

01:14:41 Speaker 1

An article is like it’s.

01:14:43 Speaker 1

I think it’s it demonstrates that you’ve done a little bit of homework and that there’s like, you’re not just sort of like.

01:14:49 Speaker 1

Throwing any like spamming every professor with emails, but it’s like you’re you’ve decided to contact this one in particular.

01:14:58 Speaker 1

It makes it so that, like I feel very much like, oh, well, you put that time into writing that message and looking into what I do.

01:15:05 Speaker 1

And then I’m going to take the time to at least reply and.

01:15:07 Speaker 1

Say I’m sorry, I can’t help you.

01:15:09 Speaker 1

You know, if I.

01:15:10 Speaker 1

Usually I replied to people.

01:15:11 Speaker 1

I just had a chat with someone this week who was a potential new student, a potential new student.

01:15:18 Speaker 1

Anyways, is there anything else you wanna add before before we say farewell?

01:15:25 Speaker 2

You mean listening?

01:15:25 Speaker 1

Well.

01:15:27 Speaker 2

I think, yeah.

01:15:28 Speaker 2

Just just I know it’s quite sound overwhelming, but it’s not when you’re doing what you like, but try to, um, present in conferences and yeah, do as much as you pop.

01:15:44 Speaker 2

You can and it’s possible for you based on your like if if you want to specifically say NI.

01:15:51 Speaker 2

To me, yeah, just hope for best.

01:15:55 Speaker 1

Yeah, and have some fun while you’re doing it.

01:15:58 Speaker 1

I also believe in doing it, but that’s harder.

01:16:01

Yes.

01:16:02 Speaker 1

Well, thank you so much for coming to my podcast and telling me about indulging my ignorance about Iranian history that I know from listening to true crime podcasts.

01:16:14 Speaker 1

So and just for like helping.

01:16:18 Speaker 1

Um, I mean, you’re always just so generous with your time and your and your thoughts.

01:16:23 Speaker 1

So I really appreciate it.

01:16:24 Speaker 1

It’s it’s.

01:16:25 Speaker 1

Yeah.

01:16:25 Speaker 1

So thank you.

01:16:28 Speaker 2

Thank you for having me and um, I am looking forward to having you again on our lunch.

01:16:35 Speaker 1

Yeah, I want it.

01:16:36

Thank you.

01:16:37 Speaker 1

Yeah, I’ll come.

01:16:38 Speaker 1

I’ll come to more lunch and learns I love it.

01:16:39 Speaker 1

I love it.

01:16:40 Speaker 1

Yeah. OK.

01:16:41 Speaker 1

Alright.

01:16:41 Speaker 1

Well, thank you for listening to the.

01:16:43 Speaker 1

Doing Social Research podcast.

01:16:45 Speaker 1

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to give us a five star rating on your favorite podcast platform and share what you like.

01:16:52 Speaker 1

About it, this will really help us to reach more listeners and make doing Social Research within the reach of everyone.

01:16:58 Speaker 1

I’d also love to connect with you.

01:16:59

No.

01:16:59 Speaker 1

It’s just we were just talking about if you want to send a message to me or if you have questions about doing Social Research or topics that you’d like covered on the website or on the podcast.

01:17:06

No.

01:17:10 Speaker 1

I’m also starting to think about doing like little videos that maybe will be, you know, like reels or tick tocks or something.

01:17:17 Speaker 1

Like tips for doing Social Research anyway, you can follow me on Instagram and Twitter at Socio Mama, a socio Mamma.

01:17:26 Speaker 1

Heat.

01:17:28 Speaker 1

Or you could join the doing Social Research Facebook group for some really exciting conversations.

01:17:33 Speaker 1

I think we are now up to four followers.

01:17:34

No.

01:17:35 Speaker 1

We want to keep the conversation going.

01:17:38 Speaker 1

I’ll put links to my social media and the references mentioned to date in the show nodes.

01:17:43 Speaker 1

You also could e-mail me at Phyllis dot Rippy at Uottawa dot CA if you have other questions or things.

01:17:46

No.

01:17:49 Speaker 1

I just want to hear from you.

01:17:50 Speaker 1

Unless it’s to tell me that I say like too much, or I do this sound like.

01:17:53

Out.

01:17:54 Speaker 1

You know, it’s so annoying and you’re never going to unhear it anyway.

01:17:57 Speaker 1

Don’t forget to check out the website doing social.

01:17:59 Speaker 1

Research.com.

01:18:00 Speaker 1

It is a work of love in progress, but hopefully there’s some resources and inspiration that you’ll find there.

01:18:06 Speaker 1

Special thanks to our sound editor Willow Rippy Young for making a sound amazing.

01:18:07

I’m.

01:18:11 Speaker 1

Jonathan Boyle wrote our theme music and I’m Phyllis Rippee.

01:18:14 Speaker 1

This is the doing Social Research podcast.

01:18:17 Speaker 1

Always remember.

01:18:17 Speaker 1

Don’t let the ******** get you down and keep doing Social Research.

01:18:21

Alright.

01:18:26